Curse

actionjack · Mar 15, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

@actionjack, ya he has something manifesting weapons too, different approach to it though, worshiper actually creates weapons that might be a good idea to implement in the feral.
Originally my idea was that feral weapon spells force the target to change the way they use their weapon.
Making them overwrite the weapon completely might have interesting possibilities.
This settles completely, that I'll change weapon spells to possession skills.

Just to be a bit more clear. I am not saying you are wrong, or the Worshipper is better. Just pointing out a unique idea I saw around.
(but since I did read Worshiper befoe I read this, thus why I say I feel desensertised)

anyhow.. was thinking what else could suggest to you, but come up really blank. Could also make the spirtual/energy weapon attack at long range too?

Oh, and this thread might interest you too.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10128777

System_Crush · Mar 15, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soul of the Scythe

I have a question: Does he use a shield as well or is the weapon in both hands(one in each hand)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by System_Crush

Equipment
Ferals have 70-75 armor at 3 pips, with a base energy of 20, as their skills do not cost much energy,
In addition to the 20 energy they get focus items with a max of +12 energy.
But because they are still a melee caster class they get a alternative focus option, these have +8 armor and +8 energy. These special focuses are large highly decorated gauntlets that cover almost the entire arm(worn on the left arm only); these are used in convocation ceremonies. (When the feral gains a new guardian) These special focuses all rely on the channel rage attribute.

Their normal focuses are from Brotherly Guardians& Grievous Guardians/Grim Guardians, and are items that are supposed to remind the spirits in the feral who they where, things like broken swords, ruined bows, dolls or a chain with some jewel hanging on it (these are replica’s so you can make them at the crafter instead of having to look all over for something that actually belonged to the guardian)

Quote:

Isn't there already a Feral CC?

Yes I must admit Abramacabre was the first one these forums using that name, fortunatly its not a ingame class yet so we are all free to use the name for whatever we like(long as its inbounds of forum rules that is).
Feral is just a concept name by the way, I'm certain Anet would change it if they chose to implement this class.

@action jack
Yes the idea is more unique that is why I like it, I will just leave the phantom weapon 4-10 and armor ignoring, but instead of having a diferent stat while under the effect of a weaponspell I will have the possesion skills overwrite the damage.
This allows me to change damage types, removes the spell tag from the skills and perhaps lets them affect foes instead of allies.
You can use a possesion with every weapon and it will take effect, BUT! if that weapon is not a spiritual weapon you will lose the bonieses it has due to mods and inscriptions.
Removing mods and inscriptions alone would be a nice skill to have for casting on foes(would not work on offhands ofcource)

But the weapon spells(possesion skills) aren't the whole thing, those are like long enchantments yes, but fortunatly you can only have one of them on you at a time making them not that much usable like enchantments.
Most of a ferals focus would be on empowerings, witch focus on protecting and damage dealing(there should be both pressure and spike builds possible) and how to make their ussage count, as they won't be spammable.

But I'm going to give possesions a bit larger role, there should be multiple features to a class sort of spreading their are of expertise allowing 2 to be in a team because they use different builds.

System_Crush · Mar 15, 2007, 03:07 PM // 15:07

I've changed the weapon spells to possessions, this changes quite some about the way the feral would be to play, especially that it might make it too easy for a feral to deal good damage, so I lowered their attack speed some too.

A possession would not replace the texture of a item, instead I imagine the weapon covered in a moving animation of some hazy mist that mist floating over the weapon slowly, preferably with the picture of a scream mask sort of embedded in the mist. still allowing you to see the weapons original skin but also clearly showing that the weapon is possessed.
Though that might become a problem with really tiny looking off-hands, off-hands in general as to the game shields and tiny off-hands are the same size... Just imagine the entire left arm smoking in mist then, that way we can't miss the offhand.

PS.
Should there also be possessions for armor? All armor on all classes is different making it hard to blance replacing the normal stats(and runes) with something else without losing on balance...
Also elementalists already have plenty of 'Armor of <something>' enchantments so it would be hard to be original.
So its a perhaps later for now.

Catsohori · Mar 16, 2007, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Hmmm, I think his was perhaps more detailed and more unique.

System_Crush · Mar 18, 2007, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Ya his feral is a good class too, its definatly one of the better druid/animal shape shifter classes.
However the concept name was meant over my feral, not his.
Feral is probably not the right name for this, its just what this was named when Aiid, CrushAndBurn and me made 14 new classes for NWN1(ya its old, pre GW definatly, it's been like 2.5 years or so)
They where named ferals because: using empowerments made them growl and the area around them glow 1 of 3 colors. They also walked hunched al the time.

Changed a lot about them to GWdificate them; feral is not really fitting anymore, but it is still the nicest I could think of, zealot was close but its already on white mantle and on dervishes.

nebojats · Mar 18, 2007, 05:37 PM // 17:37

This is one of the best CCs on this forum.

Empowerings would allow for some unique gameplay. A phantom weapon that ignores armor is also worthy of a new class. Possessions are also pretty sweet and would be very useful. I also think skills which debuff enemies but help them at the same time is an interesting idea.

You haven't gotten many responses. That's probably because there aren't many flaws to bash. Or maybe it's because it's a really difficult read. Since you've been spared so far, I'll do my best to provide you with as many problems as I can see.

Although I like a lot about this CC, I think its role is too broad. I also find it really hard to succinctly explain what it does. Personally, I think any class should be able to be summed up in one sentence, and I definitely can't do that with the Feral. Having two imposingly long and dense posts to explain the basics of the profession may contribute to this confusion.

While Empowerings are great, to me, they just don't feel unified. It's like you thought of a bunch of cool environmental effect spells and then decided to label them 'empowerings' so that they seem related.

How are Possessions different from weapon spells (except that you can cast them on enemies as well)? Don't a lot of weapon spells focus on changing weapon effects? Like Empowerings, I don't really get what connects the effects other than the mechanic.

I love the idea of a weapon which changes from armor-ignoring to physical. Personally, the weapon you have right now doesn't grab me. It's some weird disk-thing that doesn't sound very threatening and I don't get how it changes forms. I think the mechanic should be kept but put into a different weapon.

Some attributes lack continuity. You only provide four examples of Channel Rage skills but they already show a diverse array of effects: recharge time manipulation, damage, healing, hexing. I really don't understand what this attribute is. Brotherly Guardians (better name?) is better, but still isn't very cohesive. Environmental damage negation, conditions, great healing, ally protection. I get the premise, but it feels like this attribute can do everything. Greivous Guardians has a similar problem, in my opinion (personally, I think it should focus around skills which both benefit and sabotage enemies). Guardian Manifestation is pretty straight-forward.

According to your own description, this CC can be protect team members, sabotage foes, tank, nuke, and negate damage. That phrase, 'jack of all trades, master of none' doesn't really apply to the feral. It's more like 'master of all trades, jack of none.' What can't it do? Is it out-classing existing professions? (note: I'm not saying the Empowerings are overpowered... they're quite costly)

A second, related problem (which I think is the most fundamental shortcoming of this class): What does it do that isn't covered by the ten classes we already have? It can temporarily cover a lot of pre-existing functions using its empowerings, but does it do anything original?

Anyway, those are some thoughts.

P.S. Even the best of books needs a good cover. I'm almost positive you haven't gotten much feedback because of the impenetrable description in the OP and second post. Its'a real chore to work through them.

System_Crush · Mar 21, 2007, 09:39 AM // 09:39

Yay, thank you Nebojats that is exactly what I was hoping for, an objective view of the class allows you to see stuff I can't.

And you are right with those comments.

First of all, I arranged skills into attributes which where fitting as to how the feral would improve the skill, on second thought GW does not do this.
GW has more of a function to the attributes, than a how does this attribute work setup.
I also kept the amount if skills in each attribute low, so that the posts don't get any longer.

Possession where originally weapon spells, but to keep them away from the right I changed that. Different is now that a possession removes the mods of an item, whenever this is not a spiritual weapon.
This way I am keeping people from walking around with 4-40 damage staffs that still offer 10 energy.

A possession replaces the item that is possessed, while a weapon spell imbues it with a spirit.
A possessed item is a physical form of a guardian spirit, meaning it has a mind of its own; and can have other strange effects from the thoughts of the guardian affecting your own.

Likely when I changed into possessions I greatly overpowered everything, a feral is not supposed to be able to deal 4-40 damage at all!
Because what the feral does is:
Basically the feral is supposed to be a mule, a character that offers minor support wherever it can, but is not really good enough to be called a jack in any trade, but a wannabe on buffing, damage and protection.
(like bringing a lvl 12 along on a lvl 20 mission)
Then when the team needs him to the level 12 activates 1 empowering and becomes too effective be called a mule, for a while.
This effectiveness is damage or protection only, ally buffing is supposed to be a neglected function.
(looking lvl 18 all of a sud, and can chain to maintain lvl 18 effectiveness)
When his team is fighting a losing battle, the feral bursts and either ensures the survival of temmembers that are not already dead, or kills off as many foes as he can during the burst(most likely only 1.5, I tried not to make empowerings strong enough to do more)
To recuduce the pressure on his allies.
(For a few seconds he has the effectiveness of a lvl 20+, but still only 70 armor)

I agree that is not 1 sentance, but that is what a feral does.
The function of a Feral is damage or protection, they are free to chose one or to forget a secondairy profession and learn both.

I will get to work on fixing all that, the overpoweredness first, bit busy now I'll try to get everything done as soon as I can.

Nerfed Possesion damage
Changed hexes into possesions
Removed ally buffing
Nerfed some more
Added an aditional offhand possision skill
Added non elite energy management
edited new stuff description
edited role description
Made all the skills in Grim Guardians deal damage(some debuff on the side)

System_Crush · Mar 21, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

I came up with an aditional idea, what if the possesions that currently target foes could target everything?

For instance:

False Promises possession
For 10 seconds target foe's offhand grants 30...25(22) max energy and armor and all that foes skills cause exhaustion. Whenever that foe uses a skill, all adjacent foes take it's exhaustion as chaos damage.

Currently target's foes, and deals damage to allies of that foe.
Changing it, it could target anyone and damage foes of the caster.
That way you could use it to give an ally extra energy and help him damage foes whenever he uses a skill near them, at the cost of exaustion.
You would also be able to cast it on yourself.

When used on a enemy elementalist it would be effective in a debuffing way.
When used on a friendly warrior it would be effective in a buffing way.

Does anyone think this would be cool/possible to balance? It would definatly be unique, skills that buff and debuff at the same time and can target any creature.

System_Crush · Mar 26, 2007, 09:42 AM // 09:42

WTB attention, if Manga can over bump without getting banned so can I... I hope(w00t I'm a merchant now too)

Replies to the question in the previous post plz. is there a demand for such? would it work? would you use it?

Added picture of a wind and fire wheel 'similar' weapon, more evil themed. Hope those look more threatening. (or are at least be more commonly recognised)

Anyone willing to comment on the new and rebalanced feral, I did after nebojats comment?

Added sacrefices
I though it would be cool, and an addition to the ferals evil side it the could dabble in human(and mob) sacrefice.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 26, 2007, 09:57 AM // 09:57

I am ahead of you I am already a "Krytan Explorer" and in such short time what I do is keep posting and posting on different threads everyday especially it's my summer vacation I have more time^^.
It should not be in same thread cause it would be spamming^^.
Als my CCs help me alot when I think of adding something I keep a note like
"Racial Availability Iplemented^^!..."
So, technically I am not disobeying rules^^!

BTW, I love exotic stuff so I really like your skin for your weapon^^.
Try adding Water and Earth too, I may also draw Weapons Skins for you sadly I have not Scanner^^. So maybe I'll just find some screen shots from other games to inspire you for your weapon skins but do not copy the look just let it inspire you^^.
If you copy it it would be stealing for my part it is a different story^^.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 26, 2007, 10:17 AM // 10:17

This one you may copy and add some stuff^^!

Taken:

Wind and Fire Wheels(Wind)

Deer Antler Knives(Fire)

New Skin:

Sun and Moon Spear Blades

Mandarin Coin Blades

You choose which is Water or Earth^^!

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 26, 2007, 10:21 AM // 10:21

EDITED:
Sorry I clicked too much^^!...

System_Crush · Mar 26, 2007, 12:42 PM // 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

I may also draw Weapons Skins for you sadly I have not Scanner^^. So maybe I'll just find some screen shots from other games to inspire you for your weapon skins but do not copy the look just let it inspire you^^.

I use pictures from sites that sell ninja weapons and photoshop them, sites that sell weapons because, photoshopping is easyer when the weapon is displayed and against a clear background.

When somone is holding it, you first of all are missing a piece fo the weapon where their hand is, and you have to cut off then from the rest of the weapon. Making it harder to photoshop with.

Quote:

Sun and Moon Spear Blades

I know what a moon spear blade is, can't find what a sunspear

looks like.

I hope you mean without the spear, as they are supposed to be 1 handed.
Without the spear they make a likely and possible addition to the arsenal.
Though, I've never seen such a blade used wihout the spear.

Quote:

Mandarin Coin Blades

The name coin blade sounds cool, but what the FoW are they, never heard of them and can't find pictures.

Quote:

Try adding Water and Earth

Actually the collors are possesions, which are spiritual and not elemental.
The blue one is brotherly guardians, the red one is grim guardians.
They represent good and evil, turn the red one on its side and the evil eye becomes more obvious.

Could still use a neutral one, and coin blades do sound mighty interesting.
(Also, Manga you made the tessen gifs right? Could you get one that clearly shows Scar from FMA using that arm of his? I could really use that for the Wriath CC I am working on)
there is a delete post function BTW

perhaps I should have toned down the contrast on the yellow a litle, I suppose it does look far to fiery.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 26, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y19...ead_blowup.gif

http://mrtom.free.fr/misc/fma/Scar2_1.gif

Here, Sorry if it's too chaotic^^..
And I don't make it^^.

System_Crush · Mar 26, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Nevermind Manga
Found a 4 minute clip, showing bout everything I need of scar, with a cool song to it too.

Also
Replies to the question in this post plz; is there a demand for such? would it work? would you use it?
Anyone willing to comment on the new and rebalanced feral, I did after nebojats comment?

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 27, 2007, 11:40 PM // 23:40

It's Magna not Manga.

System_Crush · Mar 30, 2007, 08:06 PM // 20:06

I have a new editor and some free time on a friday
Guess what that adds up too

This is mainly too show the armlet thing, their special focus item.
((I don't have meshes for the weapons, the eastern weaponary pack is always released several months after the editor))

Runed and unruned versions, which do you like best?
IMO the goth'ish collar seems a bit too much, sadly it came with the armor mesh

[M]agna_[C]arta · Mar 31, 2007, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Ain't this a Neverwinter Warlock?

System_Crush · Mar 31, 2007, 07:33 AM // 07:33

Nope, 80-90% of the meshes are from NWN2 though(including the sky), NWN2 is very high polygon and has bloom(yay bloom makes stuff look good)

Thusly I really like copying the stuff from it, though it has the added disadvantage that if you import stuf from games the self shadows are already there, which saves a lot of work, but if you add anything from another game its very obvious because the shadows are different everywhere.

I knew that skull was a bit to obvious, should have used the claw thing...

Just imagine that instead of that reptile skull shoulder pad. I don't feel like redoing the whole guy.

[M]agna_[C]arta · Apr 02, 2007, 07:30 AM // 07:30

I don't like the appearance.